Revving Up History: The Top 10 Best Selling SUVs That Dominated the Philippines in 2017
Revving Up History: The Top 10 Best Selling SUVs That Dominated the Philippines in 2017 Typestruck.Guidemechanic.com
Welcome, fellow automotive enthusiasts and smart car buyers! As an expert blogger and professional SEO content writer, I’ve spent years dissecting market trends and understanding what truly drives vehicle popularity in the Philippines. Today, we’re taking a fascinating journey back to 2017, a pivotal year that shaped the SUV landscape in our beloved archipelago.
Why revisit 2017? Because the best-selling SUVs of that era aren’t just historical footnotes; they represent a significant benchmark for reliability, value, and desirability. If you’re currently in the market for a pre-owned SUV that offers proven performance and a robust ownership experience, understanding these titans of 2017 is absolutely essential. This comprehensive guide will not only list the top contenders but also delve deep into what made them so successful, providing invaluable insights for both nostalgic enthusiasts and discerning buyers.
Revving Up History: The Top 10 Best Selling SUVs That Dominated the Philippines in 2017
Why 2017 Was a Game-Changer for SUVs in the Philippines
The year 2017 marked a remarkable period of growth and transformation for the automotive industry in the Philippines. It was a time when consumer confidence was high, and the demand for versatile, family-friendly vehicles surged. SUVs, with their commanding presence, spacious interiors, and perceived resilience against diverse road conditions, naturally rose to prominence.
During this period, manufacturers were aggressively introducing new models and facelifts, offering a wider array of choices that catered to various budgets and lifestyles. The market was vibrant, competitive, and truly reflected the evolving needs of Filipino families and individuals seeking more than just a means of transport. This robust environment paved the way for certain models to truly shine and etch their names into the sales record books.
Understanding "Best Selling": Our Criteria for This List
When we talk about "best selling," we’re primarily referring to sales volume and market share within the SUV segment for that specific year. While exact, granular sales figures for individual models are often proprietary to manufacturers, industry reports from organizations like the Chamber of Automotive Manufacturers of the Philippines, Inc. (CAMPI) and the Association of Vehicle Importers and Distributors, Inc. (AVID) provide a clear picture of market leaders.
Based on my experience analyzing these reports and observing market dynamics from 2017, this list reflects the models that consistently topped sales charts and captured the hearts of Filipino consumers. We’re focusing on SUVs and crossover SUVs that were widely available and actively purchased during that period, ensuring this is a true representation of the market’s preferences.
The Top 10 Best Selling SUVs in the Philippines 2017: An In-Depth Analysis
Let’s dive into the champions that defined the SUV segment in 2017, exploring their strengths, enduring appeal, and what they still offer today.
1. Toyota Fortuner
Introduction: Without a doubt, the Toyota Fortuner stood as the undisputed king of SUVs in the Philippines in 2017. Its dominance wasn’t just about sales; it was about embodying reliability, ruggedness, and a strong sense of family-oriented practicality that resonated deeply with Filipino buyers. This second-generation model, launched a couple of years prior, had truly hit its stride.
Key Selling Points: The Fortuner’s success was multifaceted. It offered a robust, body-on-frame construction, excellent ground clearance, and the legendary Toyota reputation for durability and low maintenance costs. Its bold design, particularly with the "keen look" styling, gave it an undeniable road presence that many aspired to.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Fortuner was primarily powered by the new-generation GD series diesel engines (2.4L and 2.8L variants). These engines were lauded for their improved fuel efficiency, strong torque output, and relatively quiet operation compared to their predecessors. Paired with either a 6-speed manual or automatic transmission, the Fortuner offered confident power for both city driving and long highway journeys, making it a reliable workhorse for many families.
Interior & Features: The interior of the 2017 Fortuner moved upscale, featuring a more premium design with soft-touch materials and improved ergonomics. Key features included a touchscreen infotainment system, automatic climate control, and a spacious cabin capable of comfortably seating seven passengers. Safety was also a strong point, with multiple airbags, ABS with EBD, and stability control becoming standard across many variants.
Target Audience: The Fortuner was the quintessential family SUV, ideal for those who needed ample space, dependable performance for diverse road conditions, and a vehicle that would hold its value exceptionally well. It appealed to growing families, entrepreneurs, and anyone seeking a blend of utility and prestige.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: Based on my experience, the Toyota Fortuner from 2017 often commands a strong resale value even today. Its legendary reliability and the widespread availability of parts and service make it a very safe and practical choice in the used car market. Owners report minimal issues, solidifying its reputation for longevity.
Pro Tips from Us: When inspecting a used 2017 Fortuner, focus on verifying its service history meticulously. Check for regular oil changes and transmission fluid replacements, especially if it’s an automatic. Ensure all electronic components, particularly the infotainment system and power windows, are fully functional.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is assuming that all Fortuners are identical. Pay attention to the specific variant (e.g., G, V, Q) as features and engine options vary significantly. Also, don’t overlook a thorough test drive to assess the suspension and braking, as these components can show wear over time, especially if the vehicle was frequently used on rough roads.
2. Mitsubishi Montero Sport
Introduction: Closely trailing the Fortuner was the Mitsubishi Montero Sport, a formidable competitor that offered a compelling blend of style, performance, and advanced features. The third-generation model, introduced a couple of years prior, was known for its distinctive "Dynamic Shield" front fascia and a more refined driving experience.
Key Selling Points: The Montero Sport captivated buyers with its sleek, aggressive styling, particularly the unique taillight design. It also boasted a powerful yet efficient MIVEC diesel engine, a comfortable ride, and a host of advanced safety technologies that often outpaced some rivals in its segment.
Performance & Drivability: Under the hood, the 2017 Montero Sport typically featured Mitsubishi’s 2.4-liter MIVEC VGT diesel engine, paired with an 8-speed automatic transmission. This powertrain delivered strong acceleration, impressive fuel economy, and smooth gear shifts. Its Super Select 4WD-II system offered excellent off-road capabilities for adventurous owners, further broadening its appeal.
Interior & Features: The cabin of the 2017 Montero Sport was a significant upgrade, offering a more luxurious and driver-focused environment. High-quality materials, a touchscreen infotainment system with smartphone connectivity, and dual-zone automatic climate control were common. Higher variants also featured advanced safety systems like Forward Collision Mitigation and Blind Spot Warning, a big draw for safety-conscious buyers.
Target Audience: This SUV appealed to those who desired a sportier, more technologically advanced family SUV without compromising on ruggedness or space. It was popular among urban professionals and families who appreciated both style and substance, and who might occasionally venture off the beaten path.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Montero Sport holds its value well, though perhaps not quite as strongly as the Fortuner. Its reputation for reliable engines and robust build quality means that 2017 models remain popular in the used market. Parts availability is excellent, and maintenance costs are reasonable.
Pro Tips from Us: When considering a used 2017 Mitsubishi Montero Sport, pay close attention to the suspension components, especially if the previous owner was adventurous. Check for any signs of rust underneath the vehicle, particularly if it was exposed to coastal environments. Ensure all advanced electronic features, like the Super Select 4WD system and safety sensors, are functioning correctly.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: One common mistake is neglecting to test the 4WD system if present; engage all modes during a test drive. Also, verify that all recalls (if any specific to the 2017 model) have been addressed, as manufacturers sometimes issue updates for vehicle software or components.
3. Ford Everest
Introduction: The Ford Everest cemented its position as a strong contender in 2017, offering a compelling package of American-engineered ruggedness, advanced technology, and a truly premium driving experience. Known for its tough stance and sophisticated features, it appealed to those seeking a more refined take on the body-on-frame SUV.
Key Selling Points: The Everest’s main draws included its powerful diesel engines, class-leading ride comfort, and a remarkably quiet cabin for an SUV of its type. It also boasted a suite of smart technologies, including Ford’s SYNC infotainment system and active safety features, positioning it as a technologically advanced choice.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Ford Everest was typically powered by either a 2.2-liter or a more potent 3.2-liter Duratorq TDCi diesel engine, paired with a smooth 6-speed automatic transmission. The larger engine, in particular, offered exceptional power and torque, making it ideal for heavy loads or towing. Its coil-spring rear suspension contributed significantly to its comfortable and car-like ride quality.
Interior & Features: The interior of the Everest was well-appointed, offering a commanding driving position and ample space for seven occupants. High-quality materials, noise-cancelling technology, and the SYNC 3 infotainment system with a large touchscreen were significant highlights. Advanced driver-assist systems like Lane Keeping Aid and Active Park Assist were available in higher variants, showcasing its premium leanings.
Target Audience: The Everest was a favorite among families who prioritized safety, comfort, and cutting-edge technology. It also appealed to those who valued a powerful engine and a more luxurious feel in their robust SUV, often seen as a step up in refinement.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: While Ford vehicles can sometimes see slightly higher depreciation than their Japanese counterparts, the Everest from 2017 maintains good value due to its strong performance and feature set. Owners appreciate its comfortable ride and powerful engines. Regular maintenance is key to its longevity.
Pro Tips from Us: When evaluating a used 2017 Ford Everest, always check for consistent service records, especially concerning engine oil changes and transmission fluid, particularly for the 3.2L variant. Pay attention to the condition of the infotainment system and ensure all electronic features, including sensors and driver-assist systems, are fully operational.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: Common mistakes to avoid when buying a 2017 Ford Everest include overlooking the service history, as proper maintenance is key for its advanced engine and complex electronics. Also, thoroughly test the air conditioning system, as some older Ford models occasionally faced issues that might require attention.
4. Isuzu mu-X
Introduction: The Isuzu mu-X carved out a significant niche in the Philippine SUV market in 2017, leveraging Isuzu’s stellar reputation for unparalleled diesel engine reliability and durability. It was the go-to choice for those who prioritized uncompromising robustness and low running costs above all else.
Key Selling Points: The mu-X’s primary appeal lay in its legendary Isuzu diesel engine, known for its bulletproof reliability, fuel efficiency, and long lifespan. It offered a spacious, no-nonsense interior, excellent ground clearance, and a reputation for being a true workhorse, capable of enduring the toughest conditions.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the mu-X was typically powered by either the 2.5-liter or the more powerful 3.0-liter 4JJ1-TCX Blue Power diesel engine. These engines, renowned for their torque and efficiency, were paired with either a 5-speed manual or a 6-speed automatic transmission. The mu-X delivered a comfortable, albeit utilitarian, ride and handled rough roads with ease, truly living up to its rugged image.
Interior & Features: The interior of the 2017 mu-X was practical and spacious, designed to withstand the rigors of family life. While not as plush as some competitors, it offered comfortable seating for seven, a decent infotainment system, and efficient air conditioning. Safety features included multiple airbags, ABS with EBD, and stability control in higher variants.
Target Audience: The mu-X was highly popular among large families, provincial users, and businesses that needed a dependable, low-maintenance SUV for daily commutes and long-distance travel. Its reliability and fuel economy made it a smart, practical investment for those seeking long-term value.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Isuzu mu-X from 2017 retains excellent resale value, primarily due to its reputation for bulletproof reliability and economical running costs. It’s a favorite in the used market for those seeking a practical, dependable family hauler.
Pro Tips from Us: When inspecting a used 2017 Isuzu mu-X, pay particular attention to the condition of the engine and transmission. Listen for any unusual noises during a cold start and while driving. Check for even tire wear, as misalignment can occur with heavy use.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is to overlook the condition of the undercarriage, especially if the vehicle was used extensively on unpaved roads. Also, while the engines are robust, ensure regular oil changes and filter replacements were performed according to the manufacturer’s schedule.
5. Honda CR-V
Introduction: The Honda CR-V has always been a beloved nameplate in the Philippines, and 2017 was an interesting year for it. While the outgoing fourth-generation model was still selling well, the highly anticipated fifth-generation CR-V, which introduced a diesel engine option for the first time, began arriving towards the end of the year, reigniting its popularity. This blend of outgoing reliability and incoming innovation kept it high on the sales charts.
Key Selling Points: The CR-V was celebrated for its car-like driving dynamics, refined interior, and Honda’s reputation for quality and fuel efficiency. The new generation also brought a significant leap in technology, safety, and versatility, including the option of seven seats in some variants.
Performance & Drivability: Depending on whether it was the outgoing or incoming generation, the 2017 CR-V offered different powertrains. The 4th-gen typically had a 2.0-liter or 2.4-liter i-VTEC gasoline engine. The new 5th-gen, however, introduced a game-changing 1.6-liter i-DTEC turbo diesel engine paired with a 9-speed automatic transmission, offering impressive fuel economy and torque. Both generations provided a smooth, comfortable, and agile ride.
Interior & Features: Honda is known for clever interior packaging, and the CR-V was no exception. Both generations offered spacious and comfortable cabins, though the 5th-gen was more luxurious with soft-touch materials, a digital instrument cluster, and a more advanced infotainment system. Seven-seater configurations in the diesel variants were a significant draw for larger families.
Target Audience: The CR-V appealed to urban families and individuals who desired a comfortable, refined, and fuel-efficient SUV for city driving and occasional long trips. The new diesel variant expanded its appeal to those who needed more seating capacity and even better fuel economy.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: Honda vehicles generally hold their value very well in the Philippines, and the CR-V is no exception. A 2017 CR-V, whether 4th or 5th generation, is a reliable used purchase. Parts are readily available, and maintenance is straightforward.
Pro Tips from Us: For the 2017 Honda CR-V, if you’re looking at a 4th-gen model, check for consistent transmission fluid changes. For the newer 5th-gen diesel, ensure the specific diesel maintenance schedule has been strictly followed, including DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) cleaning if applicable.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: Don’t assume all 2017 CR-Vs are the same; distinguish between the outgoing 4th-gen and the incoming 5th-gen models as they have distinct features and engine options. Also, thoroughly test the infotainment system and all electronic features, as these can be costly to repair if faulty.
6. Nissan X-Trail
Introduction: The Nissan X-Trail was a strong performer in the compact crossover segment in 2017, offering a comfortable, family-friendly package with optional 7-seater capability in certain markets. Its sleek design and advanced features made it a compelling choice for those looking for practicality without sacrificing style.
Key Selling Points: The X-Trail stood out with its comfortable "Zero Gravity" seats, a versatile interior with flexible cargo space, and Nissan’s reputation for smooth, reliable powertrains. It offered a refined driving experience, making it suitable for both daily commutes and longer journeys.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Nissan X-Trail was typically equipped with a 2.0-liter or 2.5-liter gasoline engine, paired with Nissan’s Xtronic CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission). This combination provided smooth acceleration and good fuel efficiency, especially in urban environments. The ride quality was generally comfortable, absorbing road imperfections well.
Interior & Features: The interior of the X-Trail was designed for comfort and practicality. It featured a well-laid-out dashboard, a touchscreen infotainment system, and supportive seating. The availability of a 7-seater option made it particularly attractive to families needing occasional extra passenger capacity, though the third row was best suited for children.
Target Audience: The X-Trail appealed to urban families and individuals seeking a comfortable, versatile, and stylish crossover SUV. Its emphasis on ride comfort and practical features made it a strong contender for those who valued a relaxed driving experience.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Nissan X-Trail from 2017 holds reasonable resale value. Its reliability is generally good, and parts are available. The CVT transmission, while efficient, benefits greatly from regular fluid changes.
Pro Tips from Us: When checking a used 2017 Nissan X-Trail, pay close attention to the CVT. During a test drive, listen for any whining noises or unusual jerking, which could indicate wear. Also, check the condition of the interior upholstery, especially if it’s the 7-seater variant, as the third row can show more wear.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is neglecting the CVT fluid change schedule. Ensure this critical maintenance item has been consistently performed. Also, verify that all power features, such as the panoramic sunroof (if equipped) and power tailgate, are fully functional.
7. Hyundai Tucson
Introduction: The Hyundai Tucson was a popular choice in the compact crossover segment in 2017, known for its stylish European-inspired design, comfortable ride, and value-for-money proposition. It offered a compelling alternative to its Japanese rivals, blending practicality with a touch of sophistication.
Key Selling Points: The Tucson’s attractive design, comfortable and quiet cabin, and generous feature list were its primary draws. It also offered a choice of efficient gasoline and diesel engines, catering to different consumer preferences.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Hyundai Tucson was available with various engine options, including a 2.0-liter gasoline engine and a 2.0-liter CRDi diesel engine. The diesel variant, in particular, was praised for its strong torque and fuel efficiency, paired with a smooth 6-speed automatic transmission. The Tucson delivered a refined and stable ride, making it pleasant for daily commutes and long drives.
Interior & Features: The interior of the 2017 Tucson was well-designed, featuring quality materials and a user-friendly layout. It offered ample space for five passengers, a decent infotainment system, and a suite of convenience features. Safety was also a focus, with multiple airbags and electronic stability control being standard or optional depending on the variant.
Target Audience: The Tucson appealed to young professionals and small families who desired a stylish, comfortable, and well-equipped crossover that offered good value. It was a strong choice for those looking for a modern and refined driving experience.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Hyundai Tucson from 2017 generally holds good resale value, though perhaps not as strong as the segment leaders. Its modern design and robust mechanicals ensure it remains a desirable used car. Parts availability is good through Hyundai dealerships and aftermarket suppliers.
Pro Tips from Us: When inspecting a used 2017 Hyundai Tucson, especially the diesel variant, ensure there are no signs of excessive smoke from the exhaust during acceleration. Check for any warning lights related to the DPF system. For gasoline models, ensure consistent spark plug and filter replacements.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is to overlook the condition of the climate control system, as some older models might require attention to the compressor or blower. Also, verify the functionality of all electronic accessories, particularly the infotainment touchscreen, which can be prone to wear.
8. Mazda CX-5
Introduction: The Mazda CX-5 consistently stood out in 2017 as the choice for discerning buyers who valued driving dynamics, premium feel, and exquisite design. It embodied Mazda’s "Jinba Ittai" philosophy, aiming to create a strong bond between driver and car, making it a joy to drive compared to many rivals.
Key Selling Points: The CX-5 was celebrated for its stunning "KODO: Soul of Motion" design, its responsive Skyactiv engines, and its surprisingly agile handling for a crossover. It offered a near-premium interior experience and a strong emphasis on driver engagement.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Mazda CX-5 was powered by efficient Skyactiv-G gasoline engines (2.0-liter and 2.5-liter) or a 2.2-liter Skyactiv-D diesel engine, all paired with a smooth 6-speed automatic transmission. Its sophisticated chassis and G-Vectoring Control technology contributed to a truly engaging and comfortable driving experience, making it feel more like a sports sedan than an SUV.
Interior & Features: The interior of the CX-5 was a testament to Mazda’s commitment to quality, featuring premium materials, a driver-centric cockpit, and excellent ergonomics. A responsive MZD Connect infotainment system, comfortable seating, and a suite of advanced safety features like i-Activsense were highlights in higher variants.
Target Audience: The CX-5 appealed to individuals and small families who prioritized driving pleasure, sophisticated design, and a premium feel in their crossover. It was for those who saw their car as an extension of their lifestyle and appreciated refined engineering.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Mazda CX-5 from 2017 generally holds good value, reflecting its premium positioning and robust build quality. Its reliability is strong, though maintenance can sometimes be slightly more specialized due to its Skyactiv technologies.
Pro Tips from Us: When considering a used 2017 Mazda CX-5, ensure that all scheduled maintenance, particularly for engine and transmission fluids, has been diligently followed. Pay attention to the condition of the brakes, as the CX-5’s spirited driving can sometimes lead to faster wear.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is to neglect checking the condition of the tires and suspension components, as the CX-5’s precise handling means worn parts can significantly impact the driving experience. Also, verify that all electronic features, especially the MZD Connect system, are fully functional.
9. Honda HR-V
Introduction: The Honda HR-V quickly became a darling in the subcompact crossover segment after its introduction, and 2017 saw its continued success. It masterfully blended the practicality of an SUV with the agility and fuel efficiency of a hatchback, making it an ideal choice for urban dwellers.
Key Selling Points: The HR-V’s standout feature was its incredibly versatile "ULTRA" seats, which allowed for various configurations to maximize cargo space. It also boasted Honda’s renowned fuel efficiency, a refined interior, and a sleek, sporty design that appealed to a wide audience.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Honda HR-V was typically powered by a 1.8-liter i-VTEC gasoline engine, paired with a Earth Dreams Technology CVT. This combination provided smooth, linear acceleration and excellent fuel economy, particularly in city driving. The HR-V offered a comfortable and agile ride, making it easy to maneuver in tight urban spaces.
Interior & Features: The interior of the HR-V was surprisingly spacious for its class, thanks to clever packaging. It featured a modern dashboard, a touchscreen infotainment system, and high-quality materials. The highlight was undoubtedly the "ULTRA" seats, which could fold up or flat to accommodate unusually shaped or bulky items, making it incredibly practical.
Target Audience: The HR-V was highly popular among young professionals, small families, and urban residents who needed a versatile, fuel-efficient, and stylish vehicle for city life. Its compact dimensions and flexible interior made it perfect for navigating congested streets and weekend errands.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Honda HR-V from 2017 maintains excellent resale value, thanks to its Honda badge, fuel efficiency, and enduring practicality. It’s a highly sought-after model in the used car market for those seeking a reliable and versatile compact crossover.
Pro Tips from Us: When inspecting a used 2017 Honda HR-V, pay close attention to the condition of the CVT and ensure its fluid has been changed according to the schedule. Check the functionality of the "ULTRA" seats, ensuring they fold and lock correctly, as this is a key feature.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is neglecting to check for proper tire pressure and alignment, as uneven wear can affect the HR-V’s fuel economy and handling. Also, verify the condition of the brake pads and rotors, as city driving can lead to faster wear on these components.
10. Kia Sportage
Introduction: The Kia Sportage was a stylish and value-packed entry in the compact crossover segment in 2017. With its bold European-inspired design, comfortable interior, and competitive pricing, it offered a compelling package that appealed to buyers looking for something different from the usual Japanese offerings.
Key Selling Points: The Sportage stood out with its distinctive, upscale design, a surprisingly refined and quiet interior, and a strong list of standard features for its price point. It offered a comfortable ride and Kia’s impressive warranty, instilling confidence in buyers.
Performance & Drivability: In 2017, the Kia Sportage was typically offered with a 2.0-liter gasoline engine or a 2.0-liter CRDi diesel engine, both paired with a 6-speed automatic transmission. The diesel variant, in particular, provided strong performance and good fuel efficiency. The Sportage offered a comfortable and stable ride, making it suitable for both urban commuting and highway cruising.
Interior & Features: The interior of the 2017 Sportage was well-designed, featuring quality materials and a user-friendly layout. It offered comfortable seating for five, a decent infotainment system, and a suite of convenience features like automatic climate control and keyless entry. Safety features included multiple airbags, ABS, and electronic stability control.
Target Audience: The Sportage appealed to individuals and small families who desired a stylish, well-equipped, and comfortable crossover that offered excellent value for money. It was a strong choice for those seeking a distinct alternative with a premium feel.
Long-term Value/Used Market Perspective: The Kia Sportage from 2017 holds good resale value, especially the diesel variants. Kia’s improved reputation for reliability and its longer warranty coverage (when new) contributed to buyer confidence. Parts are generally available, and maintenance is straightforward.
Pro Tips from Us: When inspecting a used 2017 Kia Sportage, particularly the diesel model, check for consistent service records and ensure the fuel filter has been replaced regularly. For all variants, test the air conditioning system thoroughly, as this is a common wear point in older vehicles.
Common Mistakes to Avoid: A common mistake is to overlook the condition of the suspension, as heavy use on rough roads can lead to premature wear of bushings and shock absorbers. Also, verify that all electronic features, including the touchscreen and power windows, are fully functional.
Enduring Appeal: Factors Driving SUV Popularity in the Philippines (2017 and Beyond)
The strong sales performance of these SUVs in 2017 wasn’t just a fluke; it was a reflection of deep-seated preferences that continue to shape the Philippine automotive market today.
1. Challenging Road Conditions: Let’s face it, Philippine roads can be unpredictable. From unexpected potholes
